We'll wrap this series up before I go out the door tomorrow. I'm on vacation all next week after BAO. We're dumping the kids with the grandparents and spending a few days in the south bay. So you won't hear much outta me for a good week and a half. I have no idea what to expect at BAO with the edition so new, so I'm just going to play my game and hope for the best. Don't expect any batreps with purty pictures, either. Ain't got time for that shit in 2:45...
Havocs
At one time I thought four Tzeentch Havocs with heavy bolters and the Icon of Flame in a Bastion would be awesome anti-infantry firepower since you got 15 shots with Soul Blaze. But then I thought 25 points for Soul Blaze was stupid, so I dropped the fun bit and now it’s 115 points. But then I thought, you’d might as well take autocannons for the same price at that point and be able to threaten more targets, and so I became sad because I know autocannon Havocs don’t do shit and are not scary at all. So I never built any Tzeentch Havocs. A Dakkapred is only 107 and does the anti-infantry job better anyway.
I have four flak missile havocs that I run from time to time. They excel against Nids, but they are not worth their 175 point minimum price tag against most armies. The Hades Drake is mathematically superior anti-flyer even after its nerf.
I know Birdux used to run four lascannons in a Bastion backing up his Spawntide, but I don’t think he does anymore. I’d rather have a Lasboat Predator, personally.
Now that Havocs score, seven or eight in a Rhino packing special weapons is a possible option. I put together a Black Legion Rhino Rush list with Chosen and Havocs just to see how many meltaguns I could get into a list.
Huron plus five squads of Chosen, and three squads of Havocs, all with four meltaguns and in Rhinos comes to 1784. I can get five more meltas in there on the Chosen for 1834. Obviously, you would take a mix of special weapons, but you’re going to have a whole many lot of them in a list like that. I’m fairly curious how that would work, to be honest with you. You would probably want some kind of melee threat in there.
Anyway, I think what I’m getting at is that Havocs are probably best played with four specials now, especially since Chaos lacks ways to deal with Imperial Knights (Chosen melta spam? Khorne Mutilators?). Four meltaguns really helps on that front, and if you’re playing Chaos the right way, you’ll have a bunch of other stuff in the mix with them. Leave the heavy weapons to the Imperial Fists.
Land Raiders
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It’s really too bad we can’t get one with Objective Secured on it. Nevertheless, they are better than last edition as they can tank shock and score, which is good. The thing that makes you grimace is 240 points for two TL lascannons, a heavy bolter a dozer blade and a dirge caster. It’s not a lot of offense.
Still, it delivers your Berserkers/Terminators/Abaddon/Chosen and can screen Be’lakor. Two TL lascannons might convince a flyer to jink. It’s also hard to kill. I rate it worthy of consideration, which is good because I like using mine.
Predators
I acquired one of each when I bought a used Space Marine army for a song and converted the Preds to Chaos. I love paying 107 points for an autocannon, two sponson heavy bolters, a havoc launcher and warpflame gargoyles. It’s terrific anti-infantry at range for dirt cheap. Over the course of a game it can kick out the wounds. I just don’t usually need that. I do love that build though.
As for the lascannon version, whenever I think about taking one, I worry that with ruins likely to be very common in 7th, and with my local FLGS having tons of them that block LOS, I won’t have any fire lanes to use the thing. But if I wanted to bring lascannons and didn’t want a Land Raider, I’d pick the Predator before Havocs.
Vindicators
They lost a lot of utility in 6th when monstrous creatures ruled the world and S10 large blasts didn’t get you much. Wraithknights and Riptides still chuckle at this thing, but if vehicles become more common, this will become a better pick. I have one, and it sees action from time to time.
I think this still competes directly with the Maulerfiend, and the Maulerfiend is more useful because it can tie stuff up in assault, though it is worthless against hordes.
Not much to say about it, really. Mostly, they’re just okay, but rare is the game where they fire more than twice. Hope you get a good scatter.
Defilers
All of the Daemon Engines are overpriced, and this one is the worst by far. AV12 is just too easy to glance out, even with a 5+, IWND and 4 HP. I feel like you’d have to field a Warp Smith just to keep it firing the battle cannon, but then you’re sending bad points after bad. The concept behind the thing is clearly to advance 6” per turn and fire the battle cannon, rendering its many other weapons useless. Eventually it gets to charge. Theoretically, this works brilliantly alongside your 70 footslogging Cultists, 60 footslogging Marines and whatever other dum dums you want to put out there on foot. In practice, your army dies on its way to the other side.
As a dedicated battle cannon platform, it is too expensive compared to the much better Russ, so if you’re using it for that, hopefully it’s at least pulling double duty with point defense of an objective.
It’s hard to recommend any upgrades on the thing when it starts at such an outrageous price already. Maybe a power scourge, I dunno…
It might work alongside three Grinders if your TO doesn’t allow you to ally with the same faction, or you don’t have four Grinders. But you know which one of the four will be the first to die.
Forgefiends
I has two! They suck! The ectoplasma version is a huge joke, especially when you compare it to the cheaper and more durable Russ Executioner. Its range is too short and it’s going to lose HP to Gets Hot, and its armor is too thin.
The hades autocannon version can make flyers and skimmers jink, which is something. It isn’t 175 points worth of something, but its something. The lasboat Predator does exactly what this thing does and more for 140 points. At 140 points, I’d consider these... mabye. The autocannon needs rending.
Maulerfiends
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I think lasher tendrils should be free, and I think all Maulerfiends should take them anyway. Losing two attacks makes the things that can kill it in melee much less scary (Draigo, Wraithknights, etc…). I believe Knight Titans have three attacks base, which goes to 1 against the Maulerfiend. That will still probably hit and could wreck it, but if you send, say, three Maulerfiends at the same Titan, or put the Grimoire on it, you might be able to bring it down.
I thoroughly enjoy playing these things, but I just hate the fragility. If you could take them in a squadron, you could put the Grimoire on them and you’d have a seriously awesome unit. Maybe it’s too good, which is probably why it isn’t allowed. Whatever you do, you need to bring at least two and have a lot of other stuff rushing the other side at the same time because a single Maulerfiend rarely makes it, and that’s just disappointing as they’re so fun to use.
Obliterators
Part of me thinks they cost too much, but whenever I use them, they always do work, so I can’t complain. I converted six Termies from that used Space Marine lot I bought into Oblits with green stuff, and I usually run them with Mark of Nurgle because it’s worth it. I don’t know why, but Nurgle Terminators are not worth it. It’s the darndest thing.
I prefer to deep strike them or infiltrate with Huron because only the lascannons and plasma cannons can do much at range, and if you’re only firing those, you’re not getting your points worth out of them, but sometimes you do what you gotta do.
They work especially well in a bomb list, though I haven’t run that in 7th yet. Drop them off a Daemon icon and you can probably get TL melta range.
Havocs
At one time I thought four Tzeentch Havocs with heavy bolters and the Icon of Flame in a Bastion would be awesome anti-infantry firepower since you got 15 shots with Soul Blaze. But then I thought 25 points for Soul Blaze was stupid, so I dropped the fun bit and now it’s 115 points. But then I thought, you’d might as well take autocannons for the same price at that point and be able to threaten more targets, and so I became sad because I know autocannon Havocs don’t do shit and are not scary at all. So I never built any Tzeentch Havocs. A Dakkapred is only 107 and does the anti-infantry job better anyway.
I have four flak missile havocs that I run from time to time. They excel against Nids, but they are not worth their 175 point minimum price tag against most armies. The Hades Drake is mathematically superior anti-flyer even after its nerf.
I know Birdux used to run four lascannons in a Bastion backing up his Spawntide, but I don’t think he does anymore. I’d rather have a Lasboat Predator, personally.
Now that Havocs score, seven or eight in a Rhino packing special weapons is a possible option. I put together a Black Legion Rhino Rush list with Chosen and Havocs just to see how many meltaguns I could get into a list.
Huron plus five squads of Chosen, and three squads of Havocs, all with four meltaguns and in Rhinos comes to 1784. I can get five more meltas in there on the Chosen for 1834. Obviously, you would take a mix of special weapons, but you’re going to have a whole many lot of them in a list like that. I’m fairly curious how that would work, to be honest with you. You would probably want some kind of melee threat in there.
Anyway, I think what I’m getting at is that Havocs are probably best played with four specials now, especially since Chaos lacks ways to deal with Imperial Knights (Chosen melta spam? Khorne Mutilators?). Four meltaguns really helps on that front, and if you’re playing Chaos the right way, you’ll have a bunch of other stuff in the mix with them. Leave the heavy weapons to the Imperial Fists.
Land Raiders
It’s really too bad we can’t get one with Objective Secured on it. Nevertheless, they are better than last edition as they can tank shock and score, which is good. The thing that makes you grimace is 240 points for two TL lascannons, a heavy bolter a dozer blade and a dirge caster. It’s not a lot of offense.
Still, it delivers your Berserkers/Terminators/Abaddon/Chosen and can screen Be’lakor. Two TL lascannons might convince a flyer to jink. It’s also hard to kill. I rate it worthy of consideration, which is good because I like using mine.
Predators
I acquired one of each when I bought a used Space Marine army for a song and converted the Preds to Chaos. I love paying 107 points for an autocannon, two sponson heavy bolters, a havoc launcher and warpflame gargoyles. It’s terrific anti-infantry at range for dirt cheap. Over the course of a game it can kick out the wounds. I just don’t usually need that. I do love that build though.
As for the lascannon version, whenever I think about taking one, I worry that with ruins likely to be very common in 7th, and with my local FLGS having tons of them that block LOS, I won’t have any fire lanes to use the thing. But if I wanted to bring lascannons and didn’t want a Land Raider, I’d pick the Predator before Havocs.
Vindicators
They lost a lot of utility in 6th when monstrous creatures ruled the world and S10 large blasts didn’t get you much. Wraithknights and Riptides still chuckle at this thing, but if vehicles become more common, this will become a better pick. I have one, and it sees action from time to time.
I think this still competes directly with the Maulerfiend, and the Maulerfiend is more useful because it can tie stuff up in assault, though it is worthless against hordes.
Not much to say about it, really. Mostly, they’re just okay, but rare is the game where they fire more than twice. Hope you get a good scatter.
Defilers
All of the Daemon Engines are overpriced, and this one is the worst by far. AV12 is just too easy to glance out, even with a 5+, IWND and 4 HP. I feel like you’d have to field a Warp Smith just to keep it firing the battle cannon, but then you’re sending bad points after bad. The concept behind the thing is clearly to advance 6” per turn and fire the battle cannon, rendering its many other weapons useless. Eventually it gets to charge. Theoretically, this works brilliantly alongside your 70 footslogging Cultists, 60 footslogging Marines and whatever other dum dums you want to put out there on foot. In practice, your army dies on its way to the other side.
As a dedicated battle cannon platform, it is too expensive compared to the much better Russ, so if you’re using it for that, hopefully it’s at least pulling double duty with point defense of an objective.
It’s hard to recommend any upgrades on the thing when it starts at such an outrageous price already. Maybe a power scourge, I dunno…
It might work alongside three Grinders if your TO doesn’t allow you to ally with the same faction, or you don’t have four Grinders. But you know which one of the four will be the first to die.
Forgefiends
I has two! They suck! The ectoplasma version is a huge joke, especially when you compare it to the cheaper and more durable Russ Executioner. Its range is too short and it’s going to lose HP to Gets Hot, and its armor is too thin.
The hades autocannon version can make flyers and skimmers jink, which is something. It isn’t 175 points worth of something, but its something. The lasboat Predator does exactly what this thing does and more for 140 points. At 140 points, I’d consider these... mabye. The autocannon needs rending.
Maulerfiends
I think lasher tendrils should be free, and I think all Maulerfiends should take them anyway. Losing two attacks makes the things that can kill it in melee much less scary (Draigo, Wraithknights, etc…). I believe Knight Titans have three attacks base, which goes to 1 against the Maulerfiend. That will still probably hit and could wreck it, but if you send, say, three Maulerfiends at the same Titan, or put the Grimoire on it, you might be able to bring it down.
I thoroughly enjoy playing these things, but I just hate the fragility. If you could take them in a squadron, you could put the Grimoire on them and you’d have a seriously awesome unit. Maybe it’s too good, which is probably why it isn’t allowed. Whatever you do, you need to bring at least two and have a lot of other stuff rushing the other side at the same time because a single Maulerfiend rarely makes it, and that’s just disappointing as they’re so fun to use.
Obliterators
Part of me thinks they cost too much, but whenever I use them, they always do work, so I can’t complain. I converted six Termies from that used Space Marine lot I bought into Oblits with green stuff, and I usually run them with Mark of Nurgle because it’s worth it. I don’t know why, but Nurgle Terminators are not worth it. It’s the darndest thing.
I prefer to deep strike them or infiltrate with Huron because only the lascannons and plasma cannons can do much at range, and if you’re only firing those, you’re not getting your points worth out of them, but sometimes you do what you gotta do.
They work especially well in a bomb list, though I haven’t run that in 7th yet. Drop them off a Daemon icon and you can probably get TL melta range.