The BAO FAQ came out today. Reece and a number of other TO's from very large national tournaments met a few days ago, to, I assume, coordinate their rulings and create a comprehensive GT FAQ for one and all. First someone proposed they open the meeting with the Tournament Organizer Dance. Then once that was complete they moved into the business of coordinating their rulings on the Games Workshop FUQ's.
Discussion began as to whether psykers with independent characters joined to a psychic unit can cast duplicate powers. Reece argued that the rulebook spells out in what had might as well be giant pink letters that this is not allowed, but Mike Brandt countered that everybody on the entire eastern seaboard agreed that up is down, and there are a lot more good players on the east coast than the west so they must be right.
The dispute would have been settled by the guys who run ATC since they're smack in the middle of Tennessee, and therefore unbiased, but they do their own screwy rulings anyway and weren't on the call, and anyway, nobody wants to spend 500 bucks on a plane ticket to visit Grabass Junction, TN to attend a GT in freaking July so it was agreed that someone would make a competing team tournament someplace more interesting and accessible like Tijuana so that the ATC guys wouldn't have a GT anyone wanted to go to anymore, rendering their opinion irrelevant.
In the end the disagreement was settled by a best two of three contest of Don't Shoot The Puppy in which Reece prevailed, and so Jetseer Councils will not be able to cast Death Mission twice in the same round. By this time it was 4 AM on the east coast and they had to go to bed, so they adjourned with the TO Dance and the FAQ was left quite unfinished, but good enough, and screw you anyway.
Interesting rulings to come out of the TO summit:
With all that in mind, here is probably the list I am bringing to BAO:
Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, exalted reward
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
Soul Grinder, Tzeentch, phlegm
Soul Grinder, Tzeentch, phlegm
Soul Grinder, Slaanesh, torrent
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, ML3, spell familiar, wings, armor
10 Cultists, 2 autoguns
5 Chaos Spawn, MoN
Bastion
1850
After using a version of Rob Tilly's Screamerstarish list last week, I noticed I was spending a lot of warp charge on defensive powers that were pretty much just keeping the Tzeralds and their Screamers untouchable for the purpose of dropping more units on the board. Plus, had Allan shot his Mindstrikes at my Sorcerer with Shrouding, he would have killed him with perils, dropped shrouding and wasted me had he thought of it. I should have lost.
So I asked myself what it is I want out of my psychic phase.
The answer is two units per turn.
One unit of Horrors is good enough to get you a free unit every turn more often than not. However, as you add more warp charge on, you get less return on your investment. So after panning them in my review last week, I brought a CSM Daemon Prince with a spell familiar, which is why you should never listen to anything I have to say.
Here's why I'm bringing him.
Summoning has a 50/50 chance to go off on 5 dice. With a spell famiiliar, that goes to 75% unless my beer napkin math is wrong. With 10 warp charge in the list, I should average 13.5 warp dice. I can throw 7 dice at summoning with Horrors and 5-6 with the Prince. Odds are I will get two units more often than not and have one or two warp dice left over. I will roll Malefic and Tzeentch with the DP. If I get Cursed Earth with the DP, I roll malefic again. Otherwise, I take Summoning and roll Telepathy hoping for shrouding or invis. If not, I take Shriek, cast it at something and then fly off the board in the shooting phase so I don't need to expend warp dice on protecting my summoner.
Three Grinders are straight useful. Skyfire, anti tank, and anti-infantry in one package. I have noticed that my phlegm Grinders are outperforming my Slaanesh Grinders in 7th because the range is nice and they can force jinks on skimmers, and stun vehicles with ordnance blasts covering my advance. Plus skimmers bunched up can't jink if the template hits them.
Screamers are practically mandatory. I'd consider running three full squads if I felt like buying more.
The problem I was having was coming up with a warlord who wasn't easily killed. I couldn't build a LoC I was happy with, and any Herald on foot is squishy and usually dies. Fateweaver can't summon, and I don't care to rely on his witchfires. I tried a game with the Tzerald in a Rhino against Ian, but Ian just wrecked the Rhino and killed my warlord. That cost me the game which was otherwise well in hand, so I brought the Bastion which is as durable as you can make a Tzerald outside of spamming powers at them.
From in there he can put the Grimoire on a Grinder to help it across the board and protect five warp charge from shooting. He is also immune to the 3 result on the warp storm table per the BAO FAQ. I need to be concerned about Wraithknights with D guns and drop melta (probably won't be in the Bastion in that situation), but with three Grinders, I have target saturation for dedicated anti-AV13 weapons. I also have something for the DP to fly behind when he comes back on the board. I would have brought a Wall of Martyrs Bunker for 25 points less, but last time I looked that is banned at BAO because it's way OP or something.
The Spawn are the only thing I waver on. I could take a Maulerfiend, but it would just die. I could take Bikers, or a lasboat Pred, but I don't trust them. I could take 11 Flesh Hounds, but I think 5 Nurgle Spawn are better as a tarpit, and also more durable. I almost wish I could do CSM primary and get a Lord in there to run with the Spawn, but I lose 7 Screamers and two Grinders with nothing comparable to replace them. Anyway, I can't think of anything I like better than Nurgle Spawn for those points. They are a solid, fearless pressure unit that tarpits.
I brought this against Allan today, full on forgot to field the Nurgle Spawn, got seized on, yet handled him quite easily in the Relic (relative to the last five games anyway), though I did get invisibility on the DP, which helped in the early going. Plus he didn't bring Draigo, but I think he changed his mind about that.
At this point I open the floor up to critiques and suggestions. I may change my mind about the list, but probably not. The next game I play will be at round 1 of the BAO, so we'll see how it goes. If you're going, perhaps I'll see you there!
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Discussion began as to whether psykers with independent characters joined to a psychic unit can cast duplicate powers. Reece argued that the rulebook spells out in what had might as well be giant pink letters that this is not allowed, but Mike Brandt countered that everybody on the entire eastern seaboard agreed that up is down, and there are a lot more good players on the east coast than the west so they must be right.
The dispute would have been settled by the guys who run ATC since they're smack in the middle of Tennessee, and therefore unbiased, but they do their own screwy rulings anyway and weren't on the call, and anyway, nobody wants to spend 500 bucks on a plane ticket to visit Grabass Junction, TN to attend a GT in freaking July so it was agreed that someone would make a competing team tournament someplace more interesting and accessible like Tijuana so that the ATC guys wouldn't have a GT anyone wanted to go to anymore, rendering their opinion irrelevant.
In the end the disagreement was settled by a best two of three contest of Don't Shoot The Puppy in which Reece prevailed, and so Jetseer Councils will not be able to cast Death Mission twice in the same round. By this time it was 4 AM on the east coast and they had to go to bed, so they adjourned with the TO Dance and the FAQ was left quite unfinished, but good enough, and screw you anyway.
Interesting rulings to come out of the TO summit:
- Blasts that are placed such that they touch a skimmer next to the target will not allow the skimmer not targeted to jink.
- Portalglyph troops are not OS. (Summoned ones too.)
- Daemons and marked CSM stuff can't get psychic focus.
- Fateweaver can't roll Daemonology.
- Embarked units can't be hit by warp storm table results (including 3 or 11).
- Invisible units can be hit by anything that doesn't have to roll to hit such as beams, slashing attacks or tempates that shoot through them to a declared target beyond.
With all that in mind, here is probably the list I am bringing to BAO:
Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, exalted reward
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
8 Screamers
8 Screamers
Soul Grinder, Tzeentch, phlegm
Soul Grinder, Tzeentch, phlegm
Soul Grinder, Slaanesh, torrent
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, ML3, spell familiar, wings, armor
10 Cultists, 2 autoguns
5 Chaos Spawn, MoN
Bastion
1850
After using a version of Rob Tilly's Screamerstarish list last week, I noticed I was spending a lot of warp charge on defensive powers that were pretty much just keeping the Tzeralds and their Screamers untouchable for the purpose of dropping more units on the board. Plus, had Allan shot his Mindstrikes at my Sorcerer with Shrouding, he would have killed him with perils, dropped shrouding and wasted me had he thought of it. I should have lost.
So I asked myself what it is I want out of my psychic phase.
The answer is two units per turn.
One unit of Horrors is good enough to get you a free unit every turn more often than not. However, as you add more warp charge on, you get less return on your investment. So after panning them in my review last week, I brought a CSM Daemon Prince with a spell familiar, which is why you should never listen to anything I have to say.
Here's why I'm bringing him.
Summoning has a 50/50 chance to go off on 5 dice. With a spell famiiliar, that goes to 75% unless my beer napkin math is wrong. With 10 warp charge in the list, I should average 13.5 warp dice. I can throw 7 dice at summoning with Horrors and 5-6 with the Prince. Odds are I will get two units more often than not and have one or two warp dice left over. I will roll Malefic and Tzeentch with the DP. If I get Cursed Earth with the DP, I roll malefic again. Otherwise, I take Summoning and roll Telepathy hoping for shrouding or invis. If not, I take Shriek, cast it at something and then fly off the board in the shooting phase so I don't need to expend warp dice on protecting my summoner.
Three Grinders are straight useful. Skyfire, anti tank, and anti-infantry in one package. I have noticed that my phlegm Grinders are outperforming my Slaanesh Grinders in 7th because the range is nice and they can force jinks on skimmers, and stun vehicles with ordnance blasts covering my advance. Plus skimmers bunched up can't jink if the template hits them.
Screamers are practically mandatory. I'd consider running three full squads if I felt like buying more.
The problem I was having was coming up with a warlord who wasn't easily killed. I couldn't build a LoC I was happy with, and any Herald on foot is squishy and usually dies. Fateweaver can't summon, and I don't care to rely on his witchfires. I tried a game with the Tzerald in a Rhino against Ian, but Ian just wrecked the Rhino and killed my warlord. That cost me the game which was otherwise well in hand, so I brought the Bastion which is as durable as you can make a Tzerald outside of spamming powers at them.
From in there he can put the Grimoire on a Grinder to help it across the board and protect five warp charge from shooting. He is also immune to the 3 result on the warp storm table per the BAO FAQ. I need to be concerned about Wraithknights with D guns and drop melta (probably won't be in the Bastion in that situation), but with three Grinders, I have target saturation for dedicated anti-AV13 weapons. I also have something for the DP to fly behind when he comes back on the board. I would have brought a Wall of Martyrs Bunker for 25 points less, but last time I looked that is banned at BAO because it's way OP or something.
The Spawn are the only thing I waver on. I could take a Maulerfiend, but it would just die. I could take Bikers, or a lasboat Pred, but I don't trust them. I could take 11 Flesh Hounds, but I think 5 Nurgle Spawn are better as a tarpit, and also more durable. I almost wish I could do CSM primary and get a Lord in there to run with the Spawn, but I lose 7 Screamers and two Grinders with nothing comparable to replace them. Anyway, I can't think of anything I like better than Nurgle Spawn for those points. They are a solid, fearless pressure unit that tarpits.
I brought this against Allan today, full on forgot to field the Nurgle Spawn, got seized on, yet handled him quite easily in the Relic (relative to the last five games anyway), though I did get invisibility on the DP, which helped in the early going. Plus he didn't bring Draigo, but I think he changed his mind about that.
At this point I open the floor up to critiques and suggestions. I may change my mind about the list, but probably not. The next game I play will be at round 1 of the BAO, so we'll see how it goes. If you're going, perhaps I'll see you there!
